Age at death – 10 weeks
Cause of death – Pertussis (whooping cough)
Vaccination status – Unvaccinated due to young age
What happened – When Gavin was born his parents felt “absolute joy — just elation.” Unfortunately that was not meant to last. Gavin was taken away from them by the dreaded killer, whooping cough.
When Gavin was 2 months old, the Nortons planned a vacation to celebrate Christmas with family in Utah. To be safe, Gavin’s mom, Natalie, took him to his doctor for a general check up. Gavin was given the green light for the trip.
About a week into their Utah trip, Gavin developed a cough. Concerned, the Nortons took Gavin to a doctor who told them it was respiratory syncytial virus — a virus that infects the lungs and breathing passages. The pediatrician said the baby would be sick for about a week, recover for another week and then get well, but the parents were told to watch out for rapid breathing, increased heart rate and a decrease in appetite.
“It was horrifying and very scary,” Richie Norton described. “But at the same time, we just had all the faith in the world that he was going to be fine … but that’s not the way it happened.”
At 8 weeks of age, little Gavin was diagnosed with whooping cough. At 10 weeks his littel body gave up the fight. Gavin was born on Oct. 24, 2009, and passed away Jan. 7, 2010.
“We snuggled him and we sang to him,” Natalie added, “and we said goodbye.”
[...]
“Being a mom, standing and watching, and there’s nothing you can do. I wouldn’t wish that on anyone,” Natalie Norton said. “And if all it takes is a little shot to protect us, it’s absolutely worth it.”
According to Sounds of Pertussis, up to 80% of infected children get the disease from a parent of a caregiver, who may not have been vaccinated, or who failed to receive the Tdap booster shot that all adults need to take every 10 years.
“My children were vaccinated for the flu and I always vaccinated my children, but my obstetrician, my son’s pediatrician and my primary care physician never told me about the Tdap vaccine booster,” Norton said.
“I have heard from other parents who tell me that they have asked their doctor for the Tdap vaccine and the doctors say the risk isn’t high enough — the risk is high enough if one child dies from this vicious disease and that has already been my child — parents need to have the courage to ask their doctor for the adult Tdap booster and not to take no for answer — no more children need to die.”
This is a video of Gavin’s mom, which can be found at the Sounds of Pertussis website.
Our hearts go out to the Norton family; we are very sorry for your tragic loss.
Sources
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What? I’m pretty certainly there are very, very few adults up to date with TDaP, Those doctors make it sound like it’s no better in the medical profession in their area. I’m flabbergasted. All three diseases are horrible ways to die.
The idea of herd immunity originally only required that a substantial percentage of a population needed to be vaccinated to reduce an infection rate. In more recent years, however, it has taken on a new mandate in which everyone must be vaccinated to protect a given population. Why? Because a vaccinated person can still be infected by a non-vaccinated person who has contracted a disease. What does this mean? It means there was no immunity provided in the first place. Herd immunity can only happen if the vaccines work. When vaccines that don’t work are forced on a population, the only effect is a reduction of their immunity. The author of this article insists on the need for herd immunity, so I challenge him to prove the validity of the concept in light of the last mumps outbreak and the Swine Flu scam ( both where people actually got the disease from the vaccine), and other outbreaks where vaccines were taken in abundance (such as type 2 polio, etal.) What protection does the herd have when any individual can still be infected after taking a vaccine? NONE.
The vaccines don’t work for everyone but they do work quite well for most people (if the vaccines didn’t work why have we wiped out smallpox?).
If vaccination rates are high enough for herd immunity (which in practice means very few people getting exemptions) then mandating that everyone be vaccinated probably isn’t necessary but if they drop below that level then action will need to be taken to get the vaccination rate up above herd immunity levels and in some cases that action will have to be coercive since some people will never be persuaded no matter what.
Merely having the majority of people vaccinated isn’t enough to get herd immunity, but if the majority of people accept the safety and necessity of vaccines then it is enough to force the issue as it were with those who can’t accept reality and want to believe in fantasy.
Forcing any such issue would be a huge mistake. Until a perfect vaccine is achieved, which may never happen, there is no way to avoid someone getting infected and thereby infecting others even after they’ve all been vaccinated. That’s my point. Since the introduction of live viruses in vaccines, there is no way to guarantee there will be no infections. The older sub-unit vaccines used dead viruses and were much safer with little chance of someone contracting a disease from being vaccinated. I am not against all vaccines, but after the H1N1 scam (as the British Medical Journal refers to it), I am appalled at the practices of the vaccine manufacturers who currently are profiteering from products which they cannot guarantee, and of course, they are now protected by recent laws which give them immunity in case any children die from taking their products. This is the other side of the coin, so to speak.
If forcing the issue with the few who can’t accept reality would save more lives than the vaccine would kill then not forcing the issue would be the mistake.
Oh and stop demanding perfection as no one can provide that, how about if we make the vaccines safer than the disease.
BTW: There is a way to avoid people from getting infected despite being vaccinated, it’s called herd immunity.
As for vaccines manufacturers profiting, vaccines are so cheap there isn’t much profit in them (the reason for making it harder to sue the makers is to ensure that they keep making them even when baseless fears cause ambulance chasers to try to sue them out of business, having the companies which make vaccines leave the business would be very bad for public health).
You are so misinformed (or simply lying) about pharmaceutical profits that I’m not even going to bother with that shameless remark. As far as herd immunity goes, consider this: If vaccines intend to mildly infect a person’s body to elicit a response from his/her immune system, then you can easily say “vaccines work.” If an infection spreads, however, you’ve just given the recipient the very disease you were trying to prevent. So then you could say the vaccine worked, but the person got sick anyway.
This was already proven to be the current modus operandi when health care workers in Mexico City were force-vaccinated for the H1N1 virus before the 2009 outbreak. How do I know this? Besides the interviews with Mexican doctors (now deleted from all internet sources), Novartis pulled the H1N1 vaccine off the shelves just in time to avoid any association with the outbreak (source: Huffington Post). The British Medical Journal has since confirmed the entire “pandemic” was a scam, shamelessly promoted by the WHO. So you can say a vaccine works…especially if you want to spread a disease. That doesn’t mean anyone can benefit from taking them. Now why don’t you just admit you’re a shill for the pharmaceutical companies, and stop pretending you can actually debate this issue from humanitarian standpoint.
Please be aware that there is a vast difference between pertussis and H1N1 influenza. This is an article on pertussis, so you should stick to discussing the efficacy of the DTaP and Tdap vaccines, and not influenza vaccines. If you need a tutorial on how they are different I suggest you enroll in a beginning biology class at your local community college.
(and if the class goes well and you wish to learn more, I highly recommend three podcasts: “This Week in Virology”, “This Week in Microbiology” and “This Week in Parasitism” — which can all be accessed at microbeworld.org)
Also, the Pharma Shill Gambit is an old boring ploy, and you should think of something more original. What makes it a futile ploy is that treatment for pertussis is far costlier than vaccination Having had a child hospitalized and put on respiratory equipment, I assure you that hospital treatment runs into thousands of dollars, which is why the claim that vaccines are money makers is lost on me.
But going on the theme that you wish to actually discuss the issues honestly, please go to page 30 of this report and tell us where vaccines fall on that table. If you don’t want to deal with that report, I have several actual scientific papers that compare the costs of vaccinating to not vaccinating.
Chris: That child might have ended up in the hospital anyway. I’ve seen it happen before. And since you posted here, I’ll respond here in relation to Anon’s comment I’ll respond here, but I can’t reply directly to your comments. This post is about HERD IMMUNITY. Gavin Norton had started with that (and never followed up on it), but since you and Anon have chosen to carry the ball, do some homework. I’m not interested in what you think is “boring” since you obviously are pushing vaccines, and as far as documentation is concerned, start with M. McBean, Eustace Mullins, Catherine Diodati, but do your own homework. I’m not going to do it for you. All of this is debatable, but you expect herd immunity to be a accepted as fact even though the concept has proven to be horribly flawed. That’s where you’ve shown your true colors, especially since you haven’t denied any pharmaceutical ties (though you said the implication is getting old, which speaks volumes). An experienced shill like yourself already knows how medical researchers have found out the smallpox vaccine wasn’t all it was cracked up to be, so don’t give me any lip about expecting perfection. I never expected perfection, I don’t condemn all vaccines, but I want honesty and accountability from the pharmaceutical companies (and its representatives), which you can’t provide, so STFU unless you either come clean and admit this is all BS, or back off until you can play a smarter role in this. Re-read the comments and figure it out because whatever you believe about vaccines, nothing is carved in stone. That’s why I’ve raised these issues because to promote something which has no guarantees (and without any accountability) is just shameless.
By the way, I’ve noticed very similar writing styles, the same references (ie. the costs of hospitalization, etc.), and the same bent on pushing vaccines from both postings. Are you and Anon the same person?
I am not “Anon.” And you have still just made assertions without evidence.
Please tell us what number is to the left of the word “vaccines” on the table of the referenced report.
Gavin Norton was an infant who died. Please be sure that you have both read the article and watched the video.
I asked you earlier how you would have prevented the pertussis in Baby Gavin, and you have yet to answer. Please tell us how one can prevent pertussis in children who are too young to be vaccinated (and they are not optimally protected until they receive all their boosters at about one year).
Mr. Churchman, please re-read this part of the above article:
How do you propose to protect children who are too young to be vaccinated? This is especially pertinent to measles, mumps, rubella and chicken pox, since children need to be at least a year old to get those vaccines.
Also, be aware that there is no permanent immunity from getting certain bacterial infections (pertussis, tetanus and diphtheria are all bacterial). This is why a child can get strep throat over and over again. Even a person who survived a pertussis infection may actually catch it again sometime after five to twenty years.
Why do you expect a vaccine, which is much less potent than the full disease, provide better immunity than the disease?
You can help the odds for yourself and your community by getting the Tdap vaccine.
My point is that even if everyone around a child has been vaccinated, there is no guarantee the child will not still become infected. The H1N1 swine flu and many others had been spread by using LAIVs which the box inserts do not recommend for use around the elderly or children, yet healthcare workers were forced to take them and work anyway (fact, not fiction–my cousin is a healthcare worker). While no vaccine is perfectly safe, I do agree they should not all be ignored. Regardless, to administer them forcefully on the basis of herd immunity is simply a fallacy.
There’s no scientific basis that could change the infection ratio since complete immunity can never be guaranteed post vaccination. Just ask anyone who recently got the swine flu, mumps, or polio from the vaccines they were given. In fact, three friends of mine were hospitalized in the 2010-11 flu season after taking some of the available combo shots. There is nothing that can provide perfect protection, though I give the medical community credit for trying. Pushing the idea of forced vaccination to achieve herd immunity is simply unscientific and unconstitutional.
There’s no guarantee about anything in reality. There is however probability and the chances of getting infected if everyone is vaccinated are much lower.
Herd immunity is what wiped out Smallpox and Rinderpest, it can be quite powerful.
BTW: Those of us not in the US don’t necessarily care about your constitution, nor do we care when you think something your courts have already ruled to be compatible with your constitution violates it (at least when it is children whose parents are trying to get an exemption).
Yes, maybe an adult has the right to refuse medical care (with vaccines I’d probably require them to be under quarantine if an outbreak appears to protect the rest of society) but can an adult force a child not to receive the proper medical care (which includes vaccination)? More importantly should an adult be able to choose badly for a child?
The probability factor has been pre-determined by people who want the entire world to be vaccinated, even if it’s to their own detriment. Herd immunity had nothing to do with smallpox which was already waning at the end of its cycle prior to the introduction of the vaccine. The misinformation propagated about many of the so-called “eradicated” diseases is overwhelming. To use that as an excuse for promoting herd mentality is simply a lie. Most importantly, should a shill for the pharmaceutical companies be allowed to choose badly for any of us?
Please provide some actual evidence for your statements: “The probability factor has been pre-determined by people who want the entire world to be vaccinated,” and “smallpox which was already waning at the end of its cycle prior to the introduction of the vaccine.”
Especially since the smallpox vaccine was introduced over two centuries ago.
And really think of something more original than the Pharma Shill Gambit, please!
We’ve only wiped out two diseases so far, smallpox and rinderpest (the later only infects animals) and both of them took a long time and lots of vaccination to get rid of (and it was the vaccines which did them in, they didn’t start to go away until a vaccine was developed).
BTW: I don’t get paid by any pharmaceutical company and I don’t own stock in any of them either just in case you are interested (though I highly doubt that, you’ve already made up your mind and don’t want any of us to confuse you with the facts).
Unfortunately there appears to be a pertussis strain that has mutated-
http://www.watchdoginstitute.org/2010/12/13/whooping-cough-epidemic-california/
Yet the comments of that article would give reason to believe that the case is not at all open and shut and that the vaccine still provided some protection.
Though the false claim that you can get comparable levels of protection without the vaccine and Geri’s wilful negligence don’t look very good.
From that article:
Kelly, be sure to get a Tdap and encourage others to also increase herd immunity to pertussis.
“You are so misinformed (or simply lying) about pharmaceutical profits that I’m not even going to bother with that shameless remark”
Wow. An open admission that you can’t refute the comment.
Just google the info, dummy. You can find financial statements online either by researching each company individually (Glaxo, Baxter, Novartis, Medimmune, etc.), or you can find overall profit references in JAMA or the British Medical Journal and other publications. Why should I do that for him when he knows the pharmaceutical companies are making a fortune? With a comment like this:
“As for vaccines manufacturers profiting, vaccines are so cheap there isn’t much profit in them (the reason for making it harder to sue the makers is to ensure that they keep making them even when baseless fears cause ambulance chasers to try to sue them out of business, having the companies which make vaccines leave the business would be very bad for public health).”
Why would YOU take him seriously? Are you nuts? You can’t sue a pharmaceutical company because they make more money when they can evade all the would-be lawsuits through an act of congress or a presidential decree.
You make a claim, therefore you must support it. Do not make us do your homework for you. Now I listed a report on expenditures on pharmaceuticals, there is one table that lists vaccines. Please tell us where they fall on that table.
Now if you must play the “vaccines make money” game, then show us why treating diseases is so much cheaper than preventing them. Having had to pay for hospital care for a child, even with good insurance, I am particularly interested in your data (one was for a disease that is now vaccine preventable). Use actual studies like the following:
Economic Evaluation of the 7-Vaccine Routine Childhood Immunization Schedule in the United States, 2001
Zhou F, Santoli J, Messonnier ML, Yusuf HR, Shefer A, Chu SY, Rodewald L, Harpaz R.
Arch Pediatr Adolesc Med. 2005;159:1136-1144.
An economic analysis of the current universal 2-dose measles-mumps-rubella vaccination program in the United States.
Zhou F, Reef S, Massoudi M, Papania MJ, Yusuf HR, Bardenheier B, Zimmerman L, McCauley MM.
J Infect Dis. 2004 May 1;189 Suppl 1:S131-45.
Pediatric hospital admissions for measles. Lessons from the 1990 epidemic.
Chavez GF, Ellis AA.
West J Med. 1996 Jul-Aug;165(1-2):20-5.
Measles epidemic from failure to immunize.
Dales LG, Kizer KW, Rutherford GW, Pertowski CA, Waterman SH, Woodford G.
West J Med. 1993 Oct;159(4):455-64.
Impact of universal Haemophilus influenzae type b vaccination starting at 2 months of age in the United States: an economic analysis.
Zhou F, Bisgard KM, Yusuf HR, Deuson RR, Bath SK, Murphy TV.
Pediatrics. 2002 Oct;110(4):653-61.
Impact of specific medical interventions on reducing the prevalence of mental retardation.
Brosco JP, Mattingly M, Sanders LM.
Arch Pediatr Adolesc Med. 2006 Mar;160(3):302-9. Review.
Well, ANDREW…(Chris / Anon), show me how, when, or where any pharmaceutical company has to pay for hospital expenses. It doesn’t cost them anything if a vaccine doesn’t work. In fact, with all the products they employ in the hospitals, they’d still be making money. So do you want me to compare which way they make more money? After all, they only lose money if no one uses their products. Think long and hard about it because there IS NO SUCH THING AS PREVENTION, unless you’re willing to admit the fact that true immunity would absolutely preclude any ideas about herd immunity. If a vaccine works, the recipient is protected and thereby does not depend on the herd to be immunized. That has been my point all along, but you keep undermining your own argument knowing full well that no vaccine is perfect. You’ve said it yourself (or one of your aliases did).
I am not “Anon.” You have not supported any of your statements with actual evidence. Please provide some form of scientific documentation for your statements.
You are trying to invoke the “Nirvana Fallacy.” As I explained multiple times on this thread it is impossible to create a vaccine to be perfect 100% of the time when getting the actual disease, especially a bacterial disease, does not provide 100% immunity.
You need to update your education. You can start here. Good luck, and have fun. I enjoyed meeting my fellow students a couple of years ago when I attended a community college. I am a non-matriculated graduate student at the local university, but I only take classes when finances permit.
Please tell us what number is to the left of the word “Vaccines” on the table that is on page 30 of this report. This is at least the third time I have asked you to do this simple task. Why is it so difficult for you to click on the pdf link, scroll to page 30 and read a simple table?
And I mean a table as in a list of labels and numbers, not something you eat a meal off of. Is it because it is a pdf? Do you need to download Adobe Reader?
Still too lazy to support your own claims – I miss the days when the pro-disease supports had some moxie.
Still too lazy to do your own homework? You know you don’t care about my sources, so just google agenda 21. With the ever-changing status of viruses (and also emerging bacteria, such as the brain-eating amoeba in recent news), you might find that fighting the source of a multitude of new diseases (such as the H5N1 weaponized bird flu) helps more than trying to combat a commentator online. That source would be agenda 21. You might even learn about how the 1918 Spanish Flu was recreated in 2002 by Jeffrey Taubenberger under the auspices of the CDC. Care to venture a guess why?
All right, let’s start from first principles shall we:
The cost of Vaccines per dose is measured in cents and each person only has a handful of doses of each in their life.
The cost of other medicines (e.g. Statins) is in the multi-dollar range and each person on them has them every day pretty much for the rest of their life.
Given how most old people are on some kind of pill each day (most are taking several) it’s pretty obvious where the money is made in pharmaceuticals. Sure vaccines provide a nice little bit of extra profit but they don’t make all that much profit compared to medicine to treat chronic conditions (or lifestyle medicines like Viagra).
This is not the subject we were discussing, but concerning your “handful of doses” comment, the average child now must receive a bare minimum of 20-22 vaccines before starting any public school. Add to that the fact that even colleges aren’t allowing students to attend classes without updated vaccines and boosters. And too many companies are now making the same requirements of their employees to keep the same insane process going through our adulthood. While there’s no way to compare the profits from vaccines to other pharmaceutical items, to suggest there are minimal profits from so many “handfuls” is ludicrous. And that’s besides the fact they sell this crap to entire countries by convincing their governments there’s a pandemic coming (source: British Medical Journal). I’m not going to bother debating this because I came to this page for a different purpose, but at least read the comments on Agenda 21. The purpose of vaccines goes far beyond the profit margin and well into the realm of Security Memorandum 200.
The subject of this article is pertussis, yet you keep changing the topic. That is troll/crank behavior. You have made several claims and refused to support them with any evidence, and that includes the notion that vaccines are a profit driven enterprise.
I have yet to see you answer this simple question: Where are vaccines on the table on page 30 of this report on the use and cost of medications?
Why do you find that so difficult? Do you not know that the blue lettering is a link to another page? Or do you not know how to download and read pdf files?
“Kelly, be sure to get a Tdap and encourage others to also increase herd immunity to pertussis.”
Sound familiar, LOL?
Dear Mr. Crank, if you have a better way to prevent pertussis, and reduce transmission to infants then please present the real evidence.
Except there will be none from you. You are completely clueless when it comes to science, statistics, science and even what constitutes actual evidence and documentation.
Your sources of “information” are a Canadian woman who helped keep a man who shook a baby to death out of jail (he ended up back in jail for other crimes), and a white supremest anti-semite loon who wrote a book with the most idiotic chapter on vaccines I have ever read (absolutely no references, a bunch of silly stories and quoting some quacks).
Chuck Churchman said:
Okay, here are Mr. Churchman’s sources of information. I cannot find out who “M. McBean” is due to how it is a common name (lots of facebook and twitter accounts for McBeans with a middle initial of “M”).
Eustace Mullins’ wiki page starts with was a populist American political writer and antisemite. Well, that is interesting! He did go to several universities, and worked for famous commie-hunter Senator Joe McCarthy. I do not see anything that shows he as any expertise in vaccines, immunology, epidemiology, and biology.
I did find page on Catherine Diodati. Now ignoring that it is a webpage created to defend a man who shook his girlfriend’s infant to death, which I find deplorable (she also wrote a paper with Yazbak, someone who also defended a child killer), I also see that her degree in theology and Masters of Arts does not qualify her to pontificate on vaccines, immunology, epidemiology, and biology. I also do not see anything more recent other than putting out her 2003 book in paperback in 2010.
Mr. Churchman, I am sorry but you really need to update your education. You obviously lack an education in biology, statistics and history. I find you calling out an antisemite and someone who defended a baby murderer (consultant on “The State of Florida v. Alan Raymond Yurko (Case No. CR98-1730)”) as reliable sources to be very disturbing. Please find your nearest community college, take the Compass test, and enroll in some classes.
I have no clue what you’re talking about, except you apparently have misused your search engine. You really need to get off your ass and find out about Eustace Mullins and Mary L. McBean. They were medical researchers who exposed the deplorable sequence of events leading up to the creation of the 1918 Spanish Flu. It began with a series of vaccines to combat Typhoid fever, which mutated into Paratyphoid fever, and then again into the mis-named Spanish Flu. That was all documented in their books. Ms. Diodati is a much more up to date researcher who still gives lectures on the shortcomings of the smallpox vaccine. If I had the time, I’d provide more info, but I have to leave. You can leave your insults here, and I’ll give my retorts later. Since there are many other researchers who have taken part in this, do some homework instead of demeaning (and slandering) those who started the research. You obviously are a shill, regardless of who pays you, and you still haven’t addressed the issue of herd immunity (other than to say you would force-vaccinate everyone…just like Bill Gates). What a displeasure to hear.
I downloaded Mr. Mullins’ book Murder by Injection. It is just a 204 page rant without any references. There is no bibliography, and is completely worthless.
Please, in the future provide actual support for your statements with real scientific evidence. You can just provide the identification numbers from the PubMed index, http://www.pubmed.gov... also known as PMID.
Please educate yourself on the differences between bacterial and viral diseases. Typhoid is a bacterial disease (that I was vaccinated for as an Army brat born overseas), and influenza is viral. The virus that caused Spanish Flu has been isolated from samples gathered in the arctic (you can read about that in Gina Kolata’s Flu! and John Barry’s The Great Influenza).
I didn’t even imply the virus came from a bacteria, you disingenuous maniac. The vaccine which was originally developed for typhoid (and another later developed for paratyphoid) were reportedly the cause of the 1918 Spanish Flu (according to McBean). The virus probably developed from an early version of that vaccine, but there was no implication whatsoever that any virus came from a bacteria. (Mullin’s research confirmed McBean’s findings.)
Your opinion of Mullins does not impress me any more than your BS about herd immunity. Since you know the 1918 Spanish Flu virus has been re-created, you should also know that several other viruses have been developed from it. We are seeing designer viruses manifest all over world now (like the swine flu and SARS), but they are not naturally occurring. Look for info on the re-assorted, weaponized bird flu which Baxter tried to send out to 18 countries in December of 2009 (just google it). Do you still think agenda 21 is a joke? Take a closer look at genetically focused viruses, such as SARS, which killed almost exclusively Asians. (One of my Chinese associates died from it, but no caucasians did. Just google “deaths from SARS” to find out for yourself.) And you want us to trust pharmaceutical companies and accept the idea of herd immunity? Shame on you.
Please properly reference any papers by “McBean”, because I still see you referencing viral infections and not pertussis.
Hmm. Gavin Norton was indeed the child who was NOT an intended part of my input here. I did however read the article, and I also viewed the related video, but I was responding to the author who made references on the main page to anti-vax nutters and promoted herd immunity without any proof the vaccines work in the first place. Look back to the original page (which I received through my google alerts called vaccine alerts). Google may not be the best source for updated articles pro or con vaccines, but it is the most accessible (unless I choose an anti-vax website, which is not what I’m looking for). I have been using the same original comment on several pages while I was trying to find the author and point out the fallacy of herd immunity. It’s no big deal for me to admit I’m overworked and overwhelmed with other articles and comments from other sources.
So why is herd immunity invalid? With the mutations occurring constantly in all manner of viruses, enough adjustments cannot be made to update a vaccine which has been rendered useless, besides which the newer vaccines work by mildly infecting the recipients (which invalidates your idea that I ever suggested the disease is better than a vaccine for developing immunity…THEY’RE THE SAME THING). On the other hand, since you promote the use of vaccines as a panacea for preventing diseases, I would suggest that on that basis YOU are suggesting that promoting a disease through vaccines is your preferred method of developing immunity. The point all along has been that it doesn’t work. The older sub-unit vaccines were much safer and did not overload anyone’s body with viruses.
Finally, you asked me how I would protect children considering I do not promote vaccines the way you do. Well, it’s simple. Put an end to agenda 21. If you don’t know what it is, look it up. You cannot get a full copy of it online, but there are plenty of sources which can explain it to you (along with John Holdren’s own recommendations for population reduction). ANYONE who wants to understand why they’re now using live viruses in so many of the current vaccines should google agenda 21. At one time vaccines used to be a viable option to fight diseases, but now there’s another agenda behind them which is not supportive to our health and well-being. So to protect children when the herd immunity is impossible to achieve (which is true in all cases), and when a vaccine becomes controversial in terms of its effectiveness, look to agenda 21 for a better understanding of how the pharmaceutical companies have changed their focus. We are in big trouble from the use of pharmaceuticals in every other aspect of our lives. By depending on them for our health needs under these circumstances is dangerous to say the least.
Please answer the question with actual evidence. I have no idea what “Agenda 21″ is, and I do not care. I only care about the science and the protection of children.
Pertussis is not a viral infection, so there are no live viruses the DTaP, nor the Tdap vaccine. If you are still confused on the differences between bacteria and viruses, please enroll in a beginning biology class as your local community college (they should be starting classes in just a few weeks).
Here is a video that explains herd immunity. While I do not support Shane’s politics, nor his tone of voice… or some of the assumptions in the initial data, it is a good explanation. (by the way, he has one autistic child and his wife was killed in a horrible car accident, I may not agree with his politics, but he is a very good man who has been through some terrible times)
Actually, this is probably more realistic.
I see that you do not understand why I have a visceral reaction to anyone who defends Alan Yurko, who murdered his girlfriend’s baby (conceived while he was incarcerated). Having had a child with medical issues from birth, who had multiple stays in the hospital and is still quite disabled as an adult… I really really hate those who kill children. I love my children, all three of them. So you really need to get real references, and definitely not any of the following names: Yazbak, Buttram, Al-Bayati and Ms. Diadati. Because, what I really hate more than those who murder babies, are their defenders.
“I have no idea what “Agenda 21″ is, and I do not care. I only care about the science and the protection of children.”
Oh brother! I must have missed this earlier. Listen, you knucklehead, if you REALLY care about children, you’d better research Agenda 21 to death. Find a way to get all chapters in your hands, and then be scared because nothing is a bigger threat to your children than that. If you use your search engine the way you did earlier, your efforts will be doomed, so do yourself a favor and take this seriously. Otherwise, kiss your progeny goodbye.
PS
You should thank Anon for making a comment that brought me back here because I wasn’t going to waste any more time with you. This is the last piece of gold you get. RESEARCH AGENDA 21.
You, sir, are a crank. You bluster and blaster, but present absolutely no real evidence to back up your claims, and have resorted to pointless insults. It is quite clear that you did not read this article, nor have you attempted to click on any links provided to help with your understanding of the issues.
Unless you start engaging in a civil discourse that includes providing actual real evidence for your statements you will be treated like any other troll: being ignored.
You’ve already been given gold, you dolt. Take it and run, or leave it and weep. I care not what you do or do not do. You have a psychotic bent toward vaccinations to the detriment of everyone around you, including your own children. Your insults are meaningless because YOU haven’t done the necessary research. Why should I take you seriously? And who are you to look down your nose at me, you jackass? Your input here has been nothing short of retarded. God help you. What a moron!
Answer the question with actual evidence. Show us exactly how to prevent what happened to Baby Gavin. Use science, nothing else. You only need to post the PMID (PubMed Identification number from http://www.pubmed.gov).
Do you understand that neither the DTaP nor the Tdap contain live virues? That is because diphtheria, tetanus and pertussis are all bacterial diseases. If you do not understand what the difference is between bacteria and a virus please enroll in a basic biology class at your local community college.
Go back and read my responses. You got that all wrong (again), and I never even mentioned pertussis. As I said before, my input here is about HERD IMMUNITY which was mentioned earlier and which YOU supported. And stop telling me what I know, and start worrying about what you DON’T know. (Believe me, it’s long overdue.)
You have absolutely no understanding of herd immunity, nor have you offered any real evidence. You have only provided evidence that you are a conspiracy monger with no grasp of science or reality.
You claimed to never have mentioned pertussis, yet the subject of this article is pertussis! Failure to stay on topic is classic troll behavior.
If you wish to be taken seriously you would educate yourself to understand the difference between bacteria, viruses and epidemiology. Here are some papers that are not behind a pay wall and accessible through http://www.pubmed.gov to help you get started:
Projected cost-effectiveness of new vaccines for adolescents in the United States.
Ortega-Sanchez IR, Lee GM, Jacobs RJ, Prosser LA, Molinari NA, Zhang X, Baine WB, McCauley MM, Miller T; Working Group on Leading Economic Issues for New Vaccine for Adolescents.
Pediatrics. 2008 Jan;121 Suppl 1:S63-78. Review.
PMID: 18174323
Free-riding, fairness and the rights of minority groups in exemption from mandatory childhood vaccination.
May T, Silverman RD.
Hum Vaccin. 2005 Jan-Feb;1(1):12-5. Epub 2005 Jan 6. Review.
PMID: 17038833
Safety, immunogenicity and efficacy of influenza vaccine in children.
Cintra OA, Rey LC.
J Pediatr (Rio J). 2006 Jul;82(3 Suppl):S83-90. Epub 2006 Jun 21. Review.
PMID: 16794746
Mucosal immunology of vaccines against pathogenic nasopharyngeal bacteria.
Zhang Q, Finn A.
J Clin Pathol. 2004 Oct;57(10):1015-21. Review.
PMID: 15452151
Mathematical models as tools for evaluating the effectiveness of interventions: a comment on Levin.
Kristinsson KG.
Clin Infect Dis. 2001 Sep 15;33 Suppl 3:S174-9. Review.
PMID: 11524716
Read my comments below, but don’t bother to respond. I gave you what you were asking for, and you never even bothered to read it before you sent me this crap. I haven’t got time for you, so get lost.
Pretty funny stuff, but you’ll want to add in references to the reptilians and the Queen of England if you want to get real laughs. The fact that you trust the government to leave “Agenda 21″ sites on the Internet is just icing on the cake.
I have never seen an Agenda 21 “site,” but since you know about at least one, it’s not hard to imagine who you’re really working for. How interesting!
Mr. Churchman, you seemed to have missed that Andrew is making fun of you. This is what happens when you fail to produce actual evidence, cite people of questionable ethics and do not answer direct questions.
I am not laughing at you. You are just a victim of limited education.
You seemed to have missed that citing an “M. McBean” does not reveal that the “M” stands for “Mary L. McBean, though I will not castigate you for what is really a minor oversight (and it is still to common a name, I am not signing into Facebook). I rely on real scientific sources, not random books or webpages.
I did not find any recent activity for Ms. Diodati, but I find it interesting that you say:
So exactly why is she lecturing on a vaccine for the one human disease that has been eradicated from this planet?
You expect sources for anything you disagree with, then you try to challenge those sources, then you tell me I’m uneducated and you expect me to argue against your stupid assertion while I’m trying to watch The World According to Monsanto. Geez, I guess you’ll have to find new sources because I don’t care to give you any more, especially since you’ll only start the same cycle all over again (probably while I’m watching a different movie, LOL.) And the idea of herd immunity is still invalid. I wonder how many arguments you’ll try to involve me in before you’ll admit that, LOL.
From the CDC’s own website:
Measles Outbreak among Vaccinated High School Students–Illinois
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00000359.htm
From the CDC’s own website: Measles Outbreak among Vaccinated High School Students–Illinois
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00000359.htm
Which took place almost thirty years ago in the early 1980s. It was a case where it was realized that an MMR booster because about 5% of the time it doesn’t “take” the first time. It was used as one piece of evidence to add an MMR booster to the pediatric vaccine schedule.
And yet, it is still not pertussis. Measles, mumps and rubella are viral diseases, and not bacterial like pertussis. Also, the MMR vaccine is given only after a child reaches their first birthday. Again, not to newborns.
Now, using your sources, please answer how you propose to protect newborn babies from pertussis. It should be interesting to see what they say.
To be perfectly clear, it is not that I disagree with your sources, it is just that what they write does not agree with actual science. The science that none of them nor you have had any education, and that has changed substantially since World War I, and even in the 27 years since that CDC report.
Oh, poor Andrew. I’m sorry he didn’t get the attention that you’re craving (I mean he’s craving….oh whatever).
Why is Ms. Diodati lecturing on smallpox, a disease that has been eradicated from the human population? And where are the papers she has published on smallpox?
ZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
So, you don’t know. Then why bring it up?
Seriously, you obviously do not understand biology, statistics or what even constitutes scientific evidence. But you can remedy that by enrolling in your local community college.
You posted something about herd immunity, yet you cannot explain how to protect infants from pertussis.
Why should we believe anything you write? Give us a reason to take you seriously. Show us that you are willing to put in the effort to come up with the documentation to support your statements. This means more than flashing some names and telling us to “google” them.
Because that has worked against you. When I looked for those names I found a racist anti-semite who was mocked in his final years, and a Canadian woman who defended a baby killer. The McBean name is still a bunch of Facebook links (and I seriously doubt it is this author, especially since “M” stands for “Marshall”). This would count as a “fail.”
Explain exactly how babies like Gavin can be protected from pertussis. Tell us how we can be assured that adult family members and medical personnel do not transmit infectious diseases to babies. Do that using actual scientific evidence from http://www.pubmed.gov (it is an index of scientific papers, whose inclusion does not necessarily mean they are good papers).
Show us that you can think for yourself and not just parrot what you read on some website.
Oh, dummy, do try harder to think this through. You just lost on the herd immunization issue through avoidance, so then you tried to justify your position by changing the subject and by calling me uneducated while demeaning the sources I gave you. I don’t owe you any more information when you can look up the names and find it for yourself. We know you won’t like it. We know you’ll try to get me back into the same argument (which makes no sense), so why do you think I want to indulge you? You asked me what I would do to protect children, and I answered I would stop Agenda 21, but did you even bother to research it? Did you even look up a definition for it? You just want to attack me without addressing the real issues here. Without realizing it, YOU support Agenda 21, and you’ve even stated that you consciously support the idea of herd immunity. You’re wrong on both counts, but you won’t admit it. You won’t even look at it. So just go away. You just want to force vaccinations on entire populations to support your idiotic perception of immunity. Sepukku would be too good for you.
Marshall McBean? I don’t think so. Try Eleanora, and then put the following in your search engine: “1918 Spanish Flu caused by vaccine.” After giving me all that crap about how typhoid and paratyphoid fevers were bacterial, and the 1918 Spanish Flu was viral, I did one quick search by punching that into my search engine, and I found a whole page of references to how those “bacterial diseases” created the “viral disease” that killed upward of 50 million people. (And you said I didn’t know the difference. How assinine!)
That was just one entry, and you couldn’t even do that because you’re running on pure ego, and you couldn’t care what anyone else thinks. Yeah, I can give you some slack because I just gave you the name “McBean,” but are you really that bad at using your search engine? I doubt it. It seems more like you just have no interest in the truth. Vaccines created the most dangerous disease of the last century, and it’s recreation in this century has already led to the development of designer viruses which are showing up all over the world. And finally, Diodati lectures about the smallpox vaccine because idiots like you actually believe a vaccine cured it, which is not the case. Take it up with her, dummy. I have better things to do. (One entry into a search engine was all you needed. God, what a jerk.)
“In 1911, vaccinations were made compulsory for US Army troops and the death rate from typhoid vaccination rose to the highest point in the history of the US Army. Henry L Stimson, the US US Secretary of War, reported that seven men dropped dead after being vaccinated. He also reported 63 deaths and 28,585 cases of hepatitis as a direct result of yellow fever vaccination during only six months of WW1.
Unfortunately, these deaths did not result in vaccinations being stopped. Instead, more powerful vaccines were given to US troops. And so, in 1917, 19,608 men suffering from anti-typhoid vaccinations were admitted into army hospitals. The Irish Examiner reported at that time:
When army doctors tried to suppress the symptoms of typhoid with a stronger vaccine, it caused a worse form of typhoid paratyphoid. But when they concocted an even stronger vaccine to suppress that one, they created an even worse disease – Spanish flu.”
http://www.flu-treatments.com/spanish-flu.html
(This is only one of many links to the subject.)
“I have never seen an Agenda 21 “site,” but since you know about at least one, it’s not hard to imagine who you’re really working for. How interesting!”
When you said “google for Agenda 21″ I foolishly assumed that you were directing me to find a website about Agenda 21. I should have realized that you meant “Clouds are pretty. Sometimes I read scary messages in them though.”
I’ll try not to take you so seriously next time. Ta!
Oh, by the way. Wiki does not have good info on Agenda 21. You’ll have to look a little deeper, perhaps into Security Memorandum 200 by Henry Kissinger, or some of the GAVI agendas funded by Bill Gates. They are all being used in support of that agenda, but none encompasses the entire project. (You might also google depopulation agendas.) This is actually intended for the general readership here. Since the author apparently has a thing for the Queen of England (reptilians?), I think there’s no need to wonder about which direction the slant of this article is leaning. Happy hunting.
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